I have this sneaking suspicion that some complex problems are complex because there are intrinsically difficult issues, but that some complex problems are complex because of arbitrary and self-created matters, brought about by the technology, the process, bogus requirements. I’m not disputing at all there are classes of systems that are as Mike says they are, just wondering if perhaps they are edge cases, and how and why WS-* helps there, in a way where you could point to a solution and say WS-* was critical to success.